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Tabletop game reviews enjoyed lately thread
FWIW, I'm a huge fan of SOA (the board game; no affection for the show) and will probably never pick up Wise Guys but the change of making your upgraded units specialised in Talk or Fight sounds very thematic and quite interesting. The loss of chrome is unfortunate but I appreciate Charlie calling out the tradeoff between form and function. Using what will widely be perceived as a cost saving measure to iterate on the design itself is quite smart.
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- hotseatgames
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Having said that, I have never been down with any of the GF9 uses of this technique. Spartacus was so thoroughly SPARTACUS, I could not imagine how it was going to become X-Men. And while it was highly likely that my dislike for the SoA game was due to the people with whom I was playing it, it never caught on for me. It didn't help that I thought the show was poorly written trash with only a couple of standout performances. Regardless, it made me even less interested to try it as a D&D game, and gangsters doesn't make me want to try it either.
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- Jackwraith
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First off, I disagree that making it about Prohibition-era gangsters is an improvement. While I understand the reticence of modern players to not really want to play a game about violent contemporary criminals (in the same way that some are disinterested in playing European colonialists or Nazis), I think the switch to playing violent criminals from a century ago is not only six-to-one, half-dozen-to-another but also tired. The thematic appeal for SoA to me would've been that I wasn't playing the stereotypical theme that things like The Godfather (film, not game) have firmly embedded in the American mindset. Show me another game/book/film about gangsters and I'll show you another game/book/film about World War II. No, thanks.
I'd probably be willing to look past that if the mechanical improvements/changes are as significant as Charlie says. Given our similar tastes and my trust in his judgment, I have no reason to doubt that. But if I were already the owner of SoA, it would be a very large question for me as to just how much said changes impact gameplay. Charlie already talked about his disappointment in the physical changes and those are significant things. I regularly repeat Eric Lang's assertion that one of his primary design principles when approaching his mythic trilogy was to make something that looked cool on the table. It is a lot more interesting to be moving around plastic bikers and duffel bags than cardboard chits. In a preemptive answer to MB diving in about "CMON plastic!", it's similar to the physical changes between the Ra Uberplay and Z-Man versions. The bright colors and wooden sun disks of the former were far more interesting than the taupe and cardboard of the latter. Those visual and tactile impressions are part of playing the game. But I'm usually willing to overlook that and own both if the changes are good enough to compensate.
What would be the final question for me in this case is: Does it feel different enough that you don't feel like you're playing a reskin? I haven't heard any definitive opinions about Unfathomable in that respect, but the casual opinions I've heard say that it plays pretty much like BSG, so if you own the latter, there's not really a compelling reason to own the former, unless you're so in love with the HPL theme(!) that it's interesting enough to do so. In that case, I'd probably end up selling/trading BSG and just owning Unfathomable. As noted, I think the mechanical changes in Runebound 3rd Ed were enough to make me feel like I'm playing a different adventure game. Thus, I own both.
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The other is when its just a cash grab, like the aforementioned RA with shittier components.
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Jackwraith wrote: First off, I disagree that making it about Prohibition-era gangsters is an improvement. While I understand the reticence of modern players to not really want to play a game about violent contemporary criminals (in the same way that some are disinterested in playing European colonialists or Nazis), I think the switch to playing violent criminals from a century ago is not only six-to-one, half-dozen-to-another but also tired.
I actually prefer the SOA setting as well. I think I kind of allude to that discussing the loss of "cool".
But I had a hell of a time convincing people outside my core group to play SOA. At that time in particular, I was attending a lot of local meetups and playing with random people. Only fans of the show would play the game. Everyone else scoffed at it.
So I believe the setting is a much better choice from that qualification. I think that's important from a broad view, particularly if the game staying in print and experienced by new generations is desired.
What would be the final question for me in this case is: Does it feel different enough that you don't feel like you're playing a reskin? I haven't heard any definitive opinions about Unfathomable in that respect, but the casual opinions I've heard say that it plays pretty much like BSG, so if you own the latter, there's not really a compelling reason to own the former, unless you're so in love with the HPL theme(!) that it's interesting enough to do so. In that case, I'd probably end up selling/trading BSG and just owning Unfathomable. As noted, I think the mechanical changes in Runebound 3rd Ed were enough to make me feel like I'm playing a different adventure game. Thus, I own both.
It does feel like a reskin. I think the mechanical change matters quite a bit in terms of strategy, but not enough to where you're playing a different game. I will probably edit the review and make this clear, as it's a failing in the current draft.
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- Jackwraith
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charlest wrote: But I had a hell of a time convincing people outside my core group to play SOA. At that time in particular, I was attending a lot of local meetups and playing with random people. Only fans of the show would play the game. Everyone else scoffed at it.
That mirrors my encounter with it. I had zero interest in playing it because I'd never seen the show and had no interest in watching it because it seemed like fairly low-grade TV to me. Of course, I'd never seen Spartacus, either, because it also seemed like low-grade TV ("Skinemax") but I was willing to play because Rome. In an unusual deviation around these parts, I owned Spartacus for a time (again, because Rome) but it didn't have staying power either with me or with my groups at the time, so I ended up trading it.
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- hotseatgames
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This was a game I saw circulating around left twitter and I was not confident it was going to be good. Glad to see Dan review it and talk up the design work and help answer that question.
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- Erik Twice
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The game looks horribly naïve but I'm glad it exists. We need more games that cover interesting political topics. I would love to give it a try.Gary Sax wrote: spacebiff.com/2022/01/29/bloc-by-bloc/
This was a game I saw circulating around left twitter and I was not confident it was going to be good. Glad to see Dan review it and talk up the design work and help answer that question.
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I think I’ll disagree with the designers about the fundamental framing and virtue of riots in of themselves but the exploration of the nature of riots as the push and pull of different coalitions sounds interesting. When described liked that it sounds like a topic that could be suited for the COIN game treatment.
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- Erik Twice
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To me it's more about the general framing, with the happy cube people and their dog leaving Comrade Cafe to fight against the evil oppressive state full of gentrification and max security prisons.Gary Sax wrote: I think semi-coop version, as Dan notes, is the less naive take from the designer.
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Amazing stuff from Dan. He really gets at the heart of what BSG is about. I need to give Homeland a go.
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