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Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)

Recent Topics paging, uploading images and preview bugs require a patch which has not yet been released.

What is a Paid Preview?

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29 Jun 2021 10:55 #324316 by oliverkinne
My immediate reaction to reading the dictionary definition of "preview"...

According to the online Cambridge Dictionary, a preview is "an opportunity to see something such as a film or a collection of works of art before it is shown to the public, or a description of something such as a television programme before it is shown to the public." It's generally something you can attend, either virtually, in the case of watching a preview of a film online, or in person, by going to an early screening of a film in the cinema. Some previews are free, some you have to pay for and sometimes previews are only offered to a limited number of people. I want to look at the term "preview" in the context of board games and also investigate what a "paid preview" means in our hobby.

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29 Jun 2021 22:36 #324317 by n815e
Replied by n815e on topic What is a Paid Preview?
I don’t think there is a stigma around calling these what they are - advertising created by independent consultants. I think it is purposeful obfuscation; infomercials.

If I see an advertisement from a company, I know what I am getting. Here, though, there is an attempt to create advertisements that appear as independent reviews, unaffiliated “previews” that still give opinions and attempt to sway, media entertainment with celebrities playing the game, etc.
The company-influencer relationships are not always hidden and may even be stated, but the purpose of them is not openly admitted to be commercials, but instead are “showing how it is played” or “I’m just a regular schmo who was given the chance to look at this early”.

And these marketers will usually avoid answering questions about their relationships with publishers or act insulted that you would question their journalistic integrity or state that nobody does anything for free.
They know that if enough dots are connected then nobody is going to watch their videos any longer. Look at the backlash that MvM deservedly got and still deny doing anything wrong or personally profiting from.

A couple of years ago, a bunch of these consultants got together and created their own awards, in an attempt to increase their own standing with manufacturers, expand their brand with gamers and sell labels to add to boxes. It was so transparent, it got backlash and seems to have been abandoned.

To be clear, I think there are people like Rodney who does give occasional opinions, but who sell game explanations, not reviews. He is clearly selling his rules explanations, not his opinions.

If I rant about this it’s only because I can’t stand it. Like all the rest of us, I am a consumer and I look at reviews or previews with an expectation that I am seeing genuine opinion. Marketers pretending to be something else to sell me stuff is dishonest. It’s dishonest work.
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30 Jun 2021 09:00 #324319 by jason10mm
Replied by jason10mm on topic What is a Paid Preview?
Social media has almost completely blended personal opinion with professional duty to the point where I have zero expectations of journalistic integrity from ANYONE. I just assume every piece of content published today, be it in an actual paper, on a website, in a blog, or just a tweet, is aimed at personal gain to some extent.

So game reviews for me mostly fall into "it's entertaining but not informing my decision", "at least I trust they are showing actual game components and accurately representing the rules", and "wow, they got paid for THAT???" camps. This site at least tends to hit the former more than the latter :)

The group discussion of a game is FAR more persuasive to make me buy it. Comments and forum threads are key.

So when I find a reviewer that seems to share my tastes or at least can articulate things in my language, they get priority over others. I'm much more suss of reviews of big corporate things because I'm sure there is a "say something nice or we cut you off" implied threat whenever you are dealing with a Corp.

It would be nice for folks to be honest about the source of a review, and quite frankly so long as it is funny, thorough, or at least well lit and not full of shaky cam antics, I'm ok with blatant shilling for luxury items like board games.
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30 Jun 2021 10:17 - 30 Jun 2021 10:18 #324322 by charlest
Replied by charlest on topic What is a Paid Preview?
One aspect of all of this that particularly bothers me is when a media personality/outlet does both paid previews and non-paid reviews.

Even with disclaimers, it's difficult to discern what is paid and not when scrolling or when random people say, "MvM like it" or whatever.

If you do any paid promotional content it casts the same pall on the rest of your work in my eyes.
Last edit: 30 Jun 2021 10:18 by charlest.
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30 Jun 2021 10:42 - 30 Jun 2021 10:45 #324323 by Sagrilarus
Replied by Sagrilarus on topic What is a Paid Preview?
"Testimonial" is both the least trustworthy and most trusted form of feedback on any product. It's very easy to fake and it reaches you on a more personal level than sales data, aggregate numbers, or frankly even your own gut feel. Marketers have known this for years and depend on it to sway opinion, not only from celebrities but also from strangers that will provide a good quote on short notice for as little as getting free shipping in return. "Tina from Cincinnati" has more of an impact on you than the aggregate rating of 10,000 actual purchasers.

You just need to turn it off and look to other sources for better information.

Or take it for what it is, easy-access material that fills time.

I appreciate the people that do this want to make a living in the "board gaming industry" and at times seem miffed that we don't pay them for their services. But the only real value they're providing is easy-access, short-attention-span content that you can consume on short notice. You don't need friends around, don't need an hour, don't need to go anywhere. Paid previews are fluff. Take them for what they are.
Last edit: 30 Jun 2021 10:45 by Sagrilarus.
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30 Jun 2021 10:47 #324324 by fightcitymayor

n815e wrote: The company-influencer relationships are not always hidden and may even be stated, but the purpose of them is not openly admitted to be commercials, but instead are “showing how it is played” or “I’m just a regular schmo who was given the chance to look at this early”.

This has definitely become the YT "influencer" standard MO: "Hey, buddy, I'm just your buddy here, a totally regular guy/gal, who just happened to be shipped a giant box from Publisher-X and I'm just going to give you my thoughts, as your normal run-of-the-mill good buddy, of course!"

And let's not fool ourselves: a LOT of people just want their pre-existing consumerist tendencies to be validated by someone (anyone!) and thus we live in the world of... "INFLUENCERS!" who are there to tell you exactly what you want to hear: BUY! BUY! BUY!
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30 Jun 2021 11:31 - 30 Jun 2021 11:34 #324327 by southernman
Replied by southernman on topic What is a Paid Preview?
I have two issues/points with this statement:
" That way we also lift up those people who write reviews without any payment, like myself, whose work is done independently and not influenced by a publisher or distributor and whose opinions are genuine and honest."

1. We only have the word of these 'independent' reviewers that they are independent and not influenced, at least with 'paid previews' you are totally aware of any possible bias.
2. You are inferring that the people who are doing paid previews (i.e. not your 'group') are not genuine or honest, i.e. you are questioning their integrity (while expecting everyone to consider yours as 100%).

NOTE: And before the the indignant start posting I am not questioning the integrity of either you or paid previewers.
Last edit: 30 Jun 2021 11:34 by southernman.

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30 Jun 2021 13:23 #324334 by n815e
Replied by n815e on topic What is a Paid Preview?
As the indignant I will absolutely question the integrity of any review where the reviewer takes money from the publishers.

I work for a big corporation. You won’t find me publicly critiquing the products we make, even if it was the case that I didn’t like them. Not only would that potentially effect my current employment, it could also impact future opportunities for me with other companies.

When NPI occasionally mentions that some publishers won’t send them review copies because of previous negative reviews, it isn’t a stretch to see how monetary arrangements will disappear if anything other than the most mild or neutral criticisms are used. These aren’t even employees, they are disposable marketers who want their $300 checks or banner ads or whatever compensation they receive to keep rolling in. And just like me, they know that if they make one of their client’s games look bad, nobody else will hire them.
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30 Jun 2021 16:12 - 30 Jun 2021 16:17 #324337 by southernman
Replied by southernman on topic What is a Paid Preview?
Maybe your reply says more about your integrity (obviously, since your post is about how you see the world) than what other people actually do with their lives.

I know I wouldn't drop standards like that.
Mr Barnes got dumped by FFG for 'a lack of agreement' between the two parties.
It's not hard and definitely not rare.
Last edit: 30 Jun 2021 16:17 by southernman.

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30 Jun 2021 23:35 #324349 by n815e
Replied by n815e on topic What is a Paid Preview?
I think it is naive to believe that people accepting paychecks to sell products are going to do anything other than try to make those products look good, unless they want to be out of the board game advertising business. It’s no coincidence that none of these people have negative things to say, they love every game they were paid to.

I don’t know what Barnes’ relationship with FFG was, but apparently it wasn’t working. That doesn’t appear to be the counterexample to what I am saying that you think it is.

As to my own personal integrity, I have a career focused on helping people and organizations achieve their goals. I’m not a mercenary marketer, with a branded personality, being paid to create infomercials.
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01 Jul 2021 09:54 #324355 by Erik Twice
Replied by Erik Twice on topic What is a Paid Preview?
For me the most serious problem of paid promotional content is that, by masquerading as independent criticism, it damages everyone who is not paid off.

I've realize that many both in real life and the internet assume that I'm paid by publishers to write reviews. Not even in an underhanded way, they simply assume it must be so like it is for others. This includes not just readers and friends but also publishers and game designers. I've been asked for my "fees" and been asked for editorial oversight. Did you know there's people who send their reviews for publishers to check? Well, those publishers think that's normal. After all, if these big people accept it, why shouldn't they ask me as well?

These advertisers are also very willing to speak on ethical review practices. They go and tell publishers, readers and everyone that it's fine to buy coverage, to dictate terms, to engage in undercover adertising. So it's not that they just try to conflate advertisments with criticism, they try to undermine its moral background. I remember Rahdo trying to tell me on Twitter what's "ethical reviewing" when he had been paid to promote the game in question.

Even then, they just make criticism harder. They are not interested in it and constantly peddle this fake positivity where every game is awesome and just not for them and you should buy them all. They constantly talk about how you shouldn't write negative reviews or how they aren't useful. That the only reason to be harsh is because you are hateful or don't want a positive hobby. Fuck that.
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01 Jul 2021 12:51 - 01 Jul 2021 13:17 #324363 by sornars
Replied by sornars on topic What is a Paid Preview?

Erik Twice wrote: Did you know there's people who send their reviews for publishers to check?


I knew the hobby was full of shills but this has genuinely shocked me. For paid previews this actually makes a certain degree of sense, e.g. Rodney being paid to run through your rules should also require him to check he’s playing correctly but for something labelled as a review? That’s unacceptable.
Last edit: 01 Jul 2021 13:17 by sornars.
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01 Jul 2021 16:47 #324366 by n815e
Replied by n815e on topic What is a Paid Preview?
One of the reasons I like this site, what it offers, and the people on it is the sense that everything is genuine.
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01 Jul 2021 17:11 #324367 by ChristopherMD

n815e wrote: One of the reasons I like this site, what it offers, and the people on it is the sense that everything is genuine.


Full Disclosure: I will shill anything for anyone for the right money.
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01 Jul 2021 18:05 - 01 Jul 2021 18:09 #324369 by Erik Twice
Replied by Erik Twice on topic What is a Paid Preview?

sornars wrote: I knew the hobby was full of shills but this has genuinely shocked me.

I was shocked as well. I did not expect it at all.

In fact, the first times I heard of it I kind of dismissived it. Like you say, I thought people were talking about tutorial videos or other promotional work. If someone is paying you to make a how to play video, well, it makes sense and I don't think there's anything wrong about that as long as you are open about it. In fact, it seems perfectly reasonable to me and there are people who do this kind of work in a honest, completely ethical manner.

But they were not tutorials or promotional work. They were reviews. They were labelled as such and worked as such. Hearing people talk about how they sent their work to publishers so "they could check for mistakes" was so shocking I wrote it off as simply being the Spanish side of things, which is underdeveloped. But no, it's not just a bunch of small Spanish influencers, it's boardgame media as a whole. It didn't take long to hear reviewers elsewhere describe this as their usual process.

The worst is that they described this process as part of talks and other workshops meant to help new content creators. In fact, that's the reason I was there, I wanted to learn from them! But when I heard this, my heart sank. Really, I was flabbergasted and I felt like an idiot for dismissing previous times it happened as something minor.

I just keep thinking of how bad it must be when me, an absolute nobody, has been hit with it.
Last edit: 01 Jul 2021 18:09 by Erik Twice.
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