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Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)

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Battlestar Atlantica?

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14 Jun 2021 20:12 #323969 by Bernie
Replied by Bernie on topic Battlestar Atlantica?
That’s for sure. The point I was trying to make is that the Arkham Files setting, of which this game is set, has at this point a clear history of inclusion. As well as other setting in the FFG lineup. I understand the issues involved with base Lovecraft. Things upthread were painted with a pretty broad brush. Some o, is for sure justified but also ignores a lot of the good FFG has done in said setting.

Sexual orientation is likely not important in the context of this thread. But the broad spectrum of characters of color and different ethnicity within the Arkham Files are for sure.
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15 Jun 2021 06:56 #323971 by Erik Twice
Replied by Erik Twice on topic Battlestar Atlantica?
Something that bothers me regarding "diversity" in the FFG Arkham games as well as other games like Magic is that they all have a past of pretty heavy bigotry against the Roma which they quietly do away with.

For example, in Arkahm Horror 2nd Edition you could visit a gipsy camp featuring divinators who cast evil eye, thieves and all sorts of extremely styereotypical depictions. It's one of the most overtly racist stuff I've seen in games and it was done away with with the next edition. But they did so, not by taking away the stereotypes, but by taking out the whole ethnicity.

I think that, if your game has been bigoted against the Roma in the past, you should try to simply have a character or two of that ethnicity in non-stereotypical roles. I know it won't get you Twitter kudos, but I think it's just fair.

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15 Jun 2021 08:19 #323972 by hotseatgames
Replied by hotseatgames on topic Battlestar Atlantica?
I don’t give a shit about the time period and how that applies to reality. If Father Dagon can swim around the boat, then a Black person can be the richest passenger on board.
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15 Jun 2021 10:20 #323977 by ubarose
Replied by ubarose on topic Battlestar Atlantica?

hotseatgames wrote: I don’t give a shit about the time period and how that applies to reality. If Father Dagon can swim around the boat, then a Black person can be the richest passenger on board.


A bazillion times this.

Seriously, I do not ever want to read another comment rationalizing T.R.A.S.H. decisions in board game design and illustration as "historical accuracy."
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15 Jun 2021 13:14 #323988 by Sagrilarus
Replied by Sagrilarus on topic Battlestar Atlantica?
Historical Accuracy isn't even a valid argument. There were black millionaires in the 1800s in the U.S. and plenty in the early 1900s when this game is set. Bankers, Wall Street, commercial products aimed at the PoC community. And as you might expect, black millionaires had access to privilege the way rich white people did. They traveled first class on cruise liners. Robert Church didn't ride steerage.

What remains is the revisionist history that excludes them from consideration for a box cover on a board game . . . because . . . it's uncomfortable for white people maybe? I don't know. Or maybe it's just a lack of imagination. The history we've been taught is that all black people were poor until very recently.
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15 Jun 2021 13:59 #323989 by Michael Barnes
“Historical accuracy” is one of the most meaningless things in the entire fucking world when it comes to fictive spaces. Board games, especially fucking Cthulhu ones, are not simulations. They are fictional narratives and since they are -participatory- narratives it is absolutely imperative that the player finds identity and representation or else the game has FAILED whichever segments of the audience it is not choosing to rperesent. “Historical accuracy” isalmost always a way to reinforce a white, male version of history that ain’t even all that accurate.

In a game or in a fictive space I don’t fucking care if Julius Caesar is a gay black man and Jesse James is transgender. I don’t give a shit about historical accuracy or simulation in games AT ALL and in fact I think that kind of regressive thinking is another reason why games evolved jnto a white boy pastime rather than earning a wider audience until recently.

Historical accuracy is for old white men that still think the Confederate flag isn’t racist or that we need to preserve monuments bEcAUSE hIsToRy. Fuck ‘em.

Yeah, it’s great that FFG populated Arkham Files with a diverse cast but it’s empty, performative tokenism until the baked-in racism of Lovecraft settings is addressed...which they will never do.
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15 Jun 2021 14:48 #323990 by Sagrilarus
Replied by Sagrilarus on topic Battlestar Atlantica?
I think it's more divisive than that. I was listening to a history writer talking about D-Day, and he mentioned that the "Germans" defending Normandy came from at least 13 countries. Romania, France, Belgium, Poland . . . the standard image of square jawed Bavarian men is just plain wrong.

And yet those Bavarians are deemed "history" and what flows from it is a presentation that is dead wrong with the words "historical accuracy" printed across the front of it. The history has been pre-cleaned to make it presentable to a particular audience. When in doubt, give credit to the favored caste.

I'm not saying this is easy, and I'll give credit to FFG for the ship's captain, a Pacific Islander woman with a pretty masculine cut to her. But I think they went after the extreme instead of focusing on 30% representation of 30% cases. That's important too.
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15 Jun 2021 14:54 #323991 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Battlestar Atlantica?
Unlike Barnes, I'm mostly fine considering Arkham files separate from the original creator, ymmv. But I think uba's point upthread about *this specific aspect of Lovecraft's written work with associated central mechanism* being close to the creator's very racist original intent hits home in a way that is different than most Arkham files stuff.
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16 Jun 2021 16:00 #324027 by mads b.
Replied by mads b. on topic Battlestar Atlantica?
During the FFG live stream of the unboxing, the designer talked a bit about how they are aware of the racist part of the story. I think their choice of a magical explanation for hybrids is pretty good, but the choice of images baffles me even more when they are obviously aware of the racist bagage.

Stream here. He talks about from around the 33 minute mark.
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19 Sep 2021 16:32 #326614 by sornars
Replied by sornars on topic Battlestar Atlantica?
I watched a play through of the game by FFG and I’m not going to lie, the game looked pretty good as a game but as expected the paranoia and thematic beats appeared to be totally absent.

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19 Sep 2021 18:18 #326615 by Kmann
Replied by Kmann on topic Battlestar Atlantica?
The paranoia and thematic beats were the best parts of BSG. Arguably they were the whole game.
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19 Sep 2021 22:50 - 19 Sep 2021 22:51 #326624 by Msample
Replied by Msample on topic Battlestar Atlantica?
I just played 3 games of BSG a few weekends ago, still holds up very well. As much due theme as anything. I can’t see a made up theme like this recapturing it nearly as well.
Last edit: 19 Sep 2021 22:51 by Msample.
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