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Bugs: Recent Topics Paging, Uploading Images & Preview (11 Dec 2020)

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× Talk about the latest and greatest AT, and the Classics.

Eclipse 2nd edition

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25 Nov 2020 17:09 #316583 by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Eclipse 2nd edition

charlest wrote: I don't really understand how VPs rewarded for killing ships is gamey but building a tech or settling a specific type of planet because a randomized public objective told you to is not.


The VP draw for the loser of the battle sticks out as gamey. Or at least feels like an unthematic participation trophy.

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25 Nov 2020 17:22 #316584 by charlest
Replied by charlest on topic Eclipse 2nd edition
Ok, that's fair. But I'm not sure that feels worse than flipping an objective which requires a tech somone randomly researched. Or if you get more tech objectives when Jol-Nar is in the game.
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25 Nov 2020 17:47 #316585 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Eclipse 2nd edition
Yeah, my impression is that one of the things that the TI-heads are really looking forward to is having no new tech objectives in the new expansion and therefore having Jol-Nar automatically nerfed.
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25 Nov 2020 18:14 #316587 by RobertB
Replied by RobertB on topic Eclipse 2nd edition
Eclipse vs. TI3/4 - there's nothing like the TWBG classics. :)
The following user(s) said Thank You: ChristopherMD, birdman37, Nodens

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25 Nov 2020 18:40 #316589 by Gary Sax
Replied by Gary Sax on topic Eclipse 2nd edition
WE'RE BACK BABY.

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25 Nov 2020 19:30 #316593 by Msample
Replied by Msample on topic Eclipse 2nd edition
Been too long since the last Trashdome.

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25 Nov 2020 21:56 #316596 by Shellhead
Replied by Shellhead on topic Eclipse 2nd edition

charlest wrote: Ok, that's fair. But I'm not sure that feels worse than flipping an objective which requires a tech somone randomly researched. Or if you get more tech objectives when Jol-Nar is in the game.


TI definitely has its issues, which is why I have played a few times but never gotten around to punching tokens for my 3rd edition base set and shattered empires. If you look at TI objectively from a safe distance, it is an absurdly overwrought board game version of King of the Hill. Would be faster and less complicated to just find a pile of dirt and have fun pushing your friends off the top.

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26 Nov 2020 14:57 #316620 by southernman
Replied by southernman on topic Eclipse 2nd edition

Shellhead wrote: ... Would be faster and less complicated to just find a pile of dirt and have fun pushing your friends off the top.

I prefer to hear their screams under the bombardment of my War Suns.
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26 Nov 2020 17:57 - 26 Nov 2020 17:57 #316627 by Erik Twice
Replied by Erik Twice on topic Eclipse 2nd edition
If you boil down Eclipse to its elements, it's not that different from the average "raise the tracks" euro. The tech tree is not very different from, say, Hadara or Tapestry in function. Combat is not a tool, but another way to score points. If it were replaced by a logistics puzzle or set collection it wouldn't be that different.

Like Josh, I don't think the thematic trappings are enough for it to compete against better economic games. It's slow, with a weak combat system and disincentives to actually engage with your rivals. Buying techs for the points is more important than using them. And really, at three hours of play it competes against 90 minutes of Brass.

Unlike him, I don't agree that Twilight Imperium really has much negotiation. Certainly, it's not going to compete against Dune, Civilization or The Republic of Rome for me. What I think is TI's biggest strenght is that it does a bit of everything. It might not be as good in combat as the former or as good in negotiation as the Avalon Hill classic or have the long-term development of Tresham's game. But it has all those things and it has tech and a sensate phase. It's not the best game, but it's the game people want.

--

Personally, I think the best game in the genre is March of the Ants.

What makes it great is that it does away with all the needless filler that pervades the genre. There's no uninteractive expansion phase where you grab land until you meet each other's borders. Here you start at the middle and will interact from turn one. There are no extraneous negotiation elements and no points except controlling areas and "colony goals". It has only three resources and one of them is cards.

The actual mechanics are great. It has deterministic combat, always a good sign, and results in heavy losses for both loser and winner. The "technologies" are all unique and change how you play radically. You can develop wings to fly to any part of the board, turn your ants into kamikaze bombers or score points by occuping hexes with other players in them. You can explain it in less than ten minutes and the Puerto Rico-style actions reduce downtime to zero.

I think it's a great game and I would play it over the other two any day. Only drawback is that it plays best with 3 or 5.
Last edit: 26 Nov 2020 17:57 by Erik Twice.
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27 Nov 2020 10:13 #316635 by jason10mm
Replied by jason10mm on topic Eclipse 2nd edition

Shellhead wrote:

charlest wrote: Ok, that's fair. But I'm not sure that feels worse than flipping an objective which requires a tech somone randomly researched. Or if you get more tech objectives when Jol-Nar is in the game.


TI definitely has its issues, which is why I have played a few times but never gotten around to punching tokens for my 3rd edition base set and shattered empires. If you look at TI objectively from a safe distance, it is an absurdly overwrought board game version of King of the Hill. Would be faster and less complicated to just find a pile of dirt and have fun pushing your friends off the top.


"Big pile o'dirt", coming soon to kickstarter!! Get your pledge in now! Stretch goals include soap to clean up, forgiveness from your wife when a pallet of mud shows up on your driveway, and a super early bird pledge of authentic Wisconsin cow manure to add to your "Pile o'dirt" so the shame of being knocked down lingers long into the evening :P

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